Between Predictability and Possibility

In this episode of Reboot Diaries, we explore the constant pull between stability and freedom, and what happens when the life that keeps us secure starts competing with the life that makes us feel alive.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:14

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of The Reboot Diaries. I'm Jesse. I am Cynthia. And today we're going to talk about predictability versus freedom. Are they mutually exclusive? Can you only have one? Which one is better? All those things. But first, a very important update. Cynthia, my husband went to Aldi. And he did not like it. He did not like it one bit. What happened? They didn't have it was, I guess if we have a really small one. And so it just like they didn't have what he was looking for.

unknown 0:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

What was he looking for? I don't know, like a cereal and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

I'm sorry. Is it unreasonable to think a grocery store would have cereal?

SPEAKER_03 1:08

No, they'll have cereal. They're just not gonna have catalogs and unless it's like special find.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Yeah, but we didn't know that. So here, this small one, it was a lot more like a grocery outlet where it just felt very like random what they had versus not. And so you couldn't go with a shopping list.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Okay. They have cereal, they just don't have every kind of cereal. Okay, so he what what did he want that was not a like name brand?

SPEAKER_05 1:37

Like, did they not have I didn't ask details, I just laughed and said, huh, Cynthia will be mad. That was it. That was my response.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Yeah. I I mean, not only do I love Aldi's, I am grateful for Aldi's because I know that I can go in, get great quality food. I just and I mean like I get it in terms of people don't understand the system with the quarters and you know that's that used to be common. That's so funny that people wouldn't get that.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

But anyway, continue.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Yeah, but and you know, you've it's not pretty in terms of packaging things, but I just I you know, I kind of I consider it a part-time job in terms of all right, I'll be the cart person, you know. I I do not mind. I just I every time I go there, I feel like I have shoplifted like $50 worth of groceries because my grocery bill is so cheap. I love all these, I always will.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

I feel like if we cooked from scratch, it would probably be better for us.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

But they've got a lot, they've got a deli section, not a deli with somebody in a white coat and stuff, but they've got a little pre-packaged food area. They've got cook, but they've got great options. I get my little sourdough bread and my little bag of avocados, and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

I mean, their sourdough bread might be fine. Whereas I'm just like, oh, my stomach has trouble with yogurt. This is the brand that it does the best with, and they don't carry brands. That's where it's a little harder for me, where it's not like if we were just getting avocados or like chicken breasts, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

But brands are bougie, they don't do bougie.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Yeah. Look, my faya yogurt, it's only that's the only one I can eat.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Okay, so okay, I can't even push back because that is some mighty fine yogurt. It's very, very expensive. I only get it on sale. Okay, but it is, and and I can tell, and I can tell the difference. Uh but I mean, like you get I get yogurt at Aldi for just under four bucks, Creek yogurt. I mean, it's that's you're not gonna find that fancy yogurt for four bucks.

SPEAKER_05 3:59

No, and I don't like I don't like um a lot of the other brands that are are more affordable. I'm like, because this doesn't actually feel like Greek yogurt. Okay. I mean that's the anyway. That's I think that's probably the best example because it's not even like I taste, like I think it tastes better. It's like, no, no, like I think because it is actual Greek yogurt.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Uh well, and at least my Audi has a few different brands. I get the cheapest kind, uh, but they do have a few different brands of Greek yogurt. But I'm I'm sorry that he didn't like it.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

He didn't like it. I think we're we're Stater Brothers people now. I don't I don't know, Stater Brothers. It's between like an Aldi in a safe way or an Aldi and a Vaughn's, whatever you have there. Okay. Anyway, and enough grocery chat, but I wanted to both laugh at and apologize that Aldi is not becoming a regular part of our lives.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Sad. I'm sad for you. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

I like the model. I still like the model. I like just keeping it in the box and putting it out on the shelf. Someone who had to stock shelves, like, I love that model. All right. But freedom, for example, means sometimes you have no money and need to go to Aldi. Well, if you have some money, you can go to Aldi. Um food is food is rarely free, but stability versus freedom. So you are in you're living your best freedom life. Explain.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Oh my gosh. So I'm very fortunate. Let me first of all start by saying that in terms of being able to leave, uh, live a freedom lifestyle, my overhead is very, very low. Um, you know, my car is paid off. Um I don't have dependents. Uh and so, and you know, I've been working for many, many, many, many years. So I had a couple bucks saved up, right? So um I just want to start off by acknowledging that. But in terms of the freedom, you know, I have not worked for an employer since uh the end of 2024. So I definitely had some lifestyle changes in terms of spending. So it's not like I'm, you know, spending the same, but being able to pursue my interests and kind of explore different opportunities to make money uh while having the freedom to actually advance my own interests is just magical. And I mean, I I just I this is the happiest that I've been uh professionally. I was gonna say in a long time, but I cannot remember when I was this happy. But I will also say, and I think that this is really important, is that every professional experience that I have had has kind of like prepared me for this. So if I didn't have those experiences where, you know, maybe it wasn't as as enjoyable, I wouldn't be able to do the things that I'm doing right now.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

So for you, freedom is about like really being able to like fully choose not fully choose, because you still have to do things like market that might not be in your top three list of activities, but like you get to really focus on what you get like want to focus on in terms of the overall project. That to you it seems like the core of freedom.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Well, there's that, and then being able to move forward without having to rely on bottlenecks that oftentimes you might see in the workplace. I hadn't thought about that part. That's fair. Yeah. That is true. That is that is that is real. Um and I, you know, I'm gonna be honest, I, you know, I picked up a little, you know, work for working for a friend, and I do enjoy having, you know, colleagues and being able to check in, you know, with folks, but I also like it within a very limited capacity in terms of being able to do other things. I like it when like I had a friend from California who was in town um just you know a couple weeks ago. Hey, I'm gonna be in town, do you have time for lunch? It, you know, it wasn't a matter of just trying to figure out, okay, how am I gonna negotiate getting away for you know a couple of hours? I mean, it was just a thing of like, yeah, I can do X, Y, and Z. So I mean, it's just, it's for me, I just feel I didn't know what it was like to really have ownership over my life, which I love.

SPEAKER_05 9:05

What do you think kept you from having that ownership other than like, like, is it as simple as like if you have to clock in and out of somewhere, that takes too much away for you to feel anything ownership-wise?

SPEAKER_03 9:15

No, I would say if I'm understanding the correct the question correctly, Jesse, I would say that it really kind of comes from you know what you are raised to do. You know, you go raised to go and go to school and then get a job. In my case, you know, I'm from Detroit, so it was a good job working, you know, a good government job that was secure. And of course, you know, I was born in the 70s, and so back then it was about retirement and pensions, and you know, that's kind of what you work toward. Well, of course, all of that has gone away in terms of uh the security, but we never, you know, in my family talked about the idea of the possibility of entrepreneurship, the big focus was really on education, and I know you've had that experience uh as well, and so it's a thing of where I didn't even kind of realize that this was even an option until it kind of just happened to me. But you know, I also kind of want to go back and reiterate in terms of the circumstances were right for me, and you know, I'm not I'm very disciplined, I'm pretty disciplined.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

You're you're you're quite disciplined.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

You are so um, so it's just a thing of where that this is what works for me, and I'm I'm just I'm very grateful.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

If there hadn't been changes of the organization that like was part of your exit, like do you think you would have ever come up with the idea to leave and do this work?

SPEAKER_03 10:58

I wouldn't know, I wouldn't have thought that I could do it. I wouldn't, I would not have thought because that's not how I was, you know, that that's something that wasn't real I shouldn't say it wasn't introduced to me. That's not something that I really thought I could do uh in terms of moving forward on my own. And I certainly did not think it would be a thing of where I would find so much joy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

So you had you hadn't thought about it even. You knew you had projects you wanted to do, but you never thought about leaving a like a stable.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Yeah, no, the idea of not having a study income from somebody or predictable, that's I should say, a predictable income. And uh it has never ever ever crossed my mind. Never, not one time.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Yeah, for me, you know, going out of college and wanting to do my own thing, it was always healthcare is what kept it from being an option. And then good old Schwarzenegger out of all the things, one thing he did that was very life-changing for me in a good way was um uh sign the bill where um I could no longer be rejected from health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. And so that for me in my 20s, all of a sudden things that I thought weren't a possibility felt like a possibility. That's when I pieced together part-time jobs and I own the art gallery and things like that. But I think the the difference between like the ages we're at now and your early mid-20s is like having something to lose. And stability feels more important because I do worry about 75-year-old Jesse and not having enough money, you know, to retire and stuff. So I think that to me, stability for me is literally just like I know where my next like few paychecks are coming from. Right, right, right. That's that's the main thing. Like that's it. And it's enough that it will pay for the things.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's that's that's real. That's that's important. That's important.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Yeah. And like I, you know, so even I mean, I I always love having like a hand in just like each hand in a very different like bucket or you know, going down a different path because I get to use more of my brain and it settles down the anxiety of being fully doing like on your own consulting or whatever it is you're doing, like to have that little part-time thing that's giving you like a little bit of money, even if it's not giving you all the things that would cover all the costs.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

And have you, what do you like? Do you so to me it basically is like I want my cake and eat it too, is what a lot of that comes down to. Do you think it's possible to have both the freedom and the like stability and predictability?

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Um, I think that once I I think it is, but I don't think it's a thing of where it's instant. I mean, you know, quite frank, like with me, I, you know, financially am okay. That is though being very, very, very, very frugal. I have not gotten to the point yet where I can predict, you know, income hitting my bank account, you know, every you know, week, every two weeks or whatever. So um I have not gotten to the that point yet. I cannot wait until I do. Um, but I will also say that um, you know, being in this situation now, I I think that I will be frugal forever, just in terms of not knowing, you know, changes that could happen. So even when I do get to the point where I'm bringing in the type of money that I want to, I am still going look, I must still be up at Aldi.

SPEAKER_05 15:05

Yeah. I mean, these are habits that can pay off even when you don't technically quote unquote need to have them. Yeah. I, on the other hand, will not be a sprugal because I want to travel very, very, very badly. And that's to me the biggest exchange. There are two big trade-offs for stability. It is a and when I say stability, I'm actually just meaning about like Monday through Friday, you know, eight to eight or nine to five, whatever your job happens to be. Um, for me, it's like that is bad for my body because it doesn't have the flexibility my body needs. So physically, stability is very, it's a very fun reality of like the thing that gets me the money and the benefits to pay for the physical stuff is what makes me need to do more to pay for the physical stuff. And that's like I haven't solved that yet. I'm in my 40s and I've not solved that yet. And then the other thing is taking days off because I want to travel and I've just gone through this huge, like, I was walking more than I have in decades, and then it got taken away very quickly, is how it felt. Um, and I'm still struggling to walk again. So I'm like, okay, if I can work myself up to walk again, like I need to take all the trips involving walking now because kind of like the same years you're saying to money, like with money, like you don't know what's around the corner. So for me, that's the biggest thing that I would not want to give up for a full-time job right now. I really want to be able, even if it's unpaid, to still be taking a couple trips a year.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Right. But I mean, uh, and I share your interest in travel. I'm not as passionate as you are, but If you share my interest in travel, you don't mind some travel. No, no, but I mean, like, I would love like you, you know, I want to go to South Korea. There are some places where I really, really, really want to go. But one of the things that I would love to be able to do is figure out how I can connect the two in terms of the work that I do to travel. And that's one of the things that I really thought about when I started this is what can I get into that's universal? And that was, you know, one of the things that really appealed to me about leaning into the healthcare piece.

SPEAKER_05 17:26

Yeah, I mean, that's true. That's fair. I want that for you. I like that idea. Feels very tax deductible. But the um Yeah, I like to just be away from everything though. So I would like doing that, and I I actually used to like guide the trips that I used to just like take people on, and I liked it, but it is a different experience because you lose the freedom to do what you want while you're there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 17:56

That's yeah, and that's kind of why I like traveling alone.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

You know, I like travel, I I like traveling in groups. I especially like tour groups.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

I mean, there's a huge I mean, I like that too, but there's a different like amount. It's more stressful when you travel alone. Like it's definitely more stressful. But there's also that, like, especially if it's like somewhere I'm kind of familiar with, that freedom gain is just like there's a couple cities going to like I love going too alone because I know them well enough. Like New York and London. Like I can get around fine by myself. I'm not having tons of anxiety. Like, I speak the language, like it's fine. I can be, I can I know how to be safe there, you know, things like that. Um, whereas if I went to like Rome alone, I'd be like more stressed because I don't know Rome very well in terms of how to like I know what to do there very, very well. Travel agent. Like, of course I know all the stuff, but like what number of train bus, et cetera, to take, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

So I'll tell you what's really interesting that I really like. No, this was where did I put it was in Rome where I picked it up. But bottom line is I did travel alone in Rome. And um, and but what I did was like I would find little, you know, the little tours to go, like yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:22

So and those totally those day tours or like one or two days. Those are like the I think that's like one of my favorite ways to travel in a lot of places.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Yeah, yeah. And then when I went from Rome to uh was it Florence, I had the disability assistants. So like, you know, here they'll let you, you know, walk there, there, you're getting in a wheelchair, which was fine. But like had it not been for them, I literally would not know would have known what to do because like I had a connecting train uh to go to the Tuscany region. But bottom line is that I missed it because the train was delayed, but I just they just rolled me in their little office. I didn't have to do anything, and then they just rolled me on the next train. Sounds solid. That sound good.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Yeah, I mean so I mean, freedom to me is being able to prioritize what you want to prioritize. But you do also have to have like be responsible, be frugal right now, and and all those kinds of things. But that's why, you know, it started to come down to like, do I want to keep applying for tech jobs? Because you have none of that freedom. It would be very hard to be with my parents and hang out with my parents and have time with my dad, you know, things like that. All of that would just get really hard, and I don't want to give that up right now at all. Um, so it gets it's it's tricky. Like, also, I don't look at full-time regular jobs as stable like I used to. Like, do you think stability is even a thing?

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Um, I I don't know that stability is a thing. What I'm more concerned about, I shouldn't say this because I know this sounds really flaky, but really what I find more interesting about traditional jobs is happiness. And it just seems like with any work environment, there's always just so much going on, and you've got to like prepare yourself. What do you do when your manager is like X, Y, and Z, and when there's office politics? I mean, like, and I was just actually looking on videos on LinkedIn, and I don't know why all these were in my scroll, but it's just like everything is about problems in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Um, and when you're not in that setting, it's just a lot easier to just really enjoy and appreciate. Life. You know what?

SPEAKER_05 22:01

I don't miss performance reviews, writing other people's reviews, writing my own review, getting surprised. I don't miss any of that. And it's not to say I don't get feedback currently, because I do. I like feedback fine. I'm good with feedback, ideally delivered well. It's just like some of those like processes that like just were so exhausting and not paying off in the way they're supposed to, things like that. I don't miss.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Well, but I mean, that's that's systems, right?

SPEAKER_05 22:33

I mean, yeah, it's I'm like supporting your yeah. This is like and a yes and to what you're pointing.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yeah. Think about like with healthcare and approvals and like every every all of these systems are not set up to help us. They're set up for other purposes.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

Yeah. I was one of the people setting up that system. I was still just like, oh. Yeah. I don't, yeah, it is, and I was thinking for the first time when you first started talking about like what you like and doing like a big project you like, that bureaucracy. Like I am better at jumping through hoops and getting finding a way to make something happen than a lot of people are. And so it's easy for me to forget how often I did come up to the stopping points. And it's funny that it's easy to forget because that was most of my job is navigating those like bumps up against a wall, rest like whether it's like personalities not being interested or like the paperwork legal required, like all that stuff. That's a good point. I don't have to do that, but I do think you know, doing travel, there is a good amount of logistics. So maybe there's less, yeah, there's less of a change for me than you. I think the type of work you were doing to now and the type of work I was doing to now, I still have to like battle a lot of i's and cross a lot of T's that would be ideal to not be needed. So there's part of that. I mean, and in like with my part-time job, like the whole thing is just so funny. If I don't touch another pickleball net in my life, it will be too soon. Like I just it's silly. But I don't have a lot of blockers. So I I think I have forgotten and taken that for granted.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

Because if someone's getting my way putting away a pickleball net, I get they say, like, I need you to get out of the way, I need to put away the pickleball net. And then they do like it's very, it's very straightforward.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Uh-huh. So how how free would you like on a scale from one to ten, how free do you feel now?

SPEAKER_05 24:42

Maybe only like a five, because I'm thinking very holistically, not just about career. Like my body is not free right now. It has to get up and go to an appointment every weekday morning. Right? I cannot physically do a lot of the things that I want to do for fun. So it's like freedom, freedom that you can't use is not there. Um, and I have to take whatever schedule I'm given. So, like, there are a lot of things that feel imposed upon me, even though I am opting into them that do take away the ability. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't leave tomorrow for a week-long trip in the middle of treatment things. So, like, I think right now I feel less free than I probably did three weeks ago, and I will in like a month and a half. Um, but I was still able to like take my mom out early for Mother's Day yesterday and had all that flexibility. I want the flexibility. I don't need to be completely untethered. I actually don't do well when I'm completely untethered, like no deadlines or anything. I I really need flexibility to counteract some of the things I give up when I go into like that quote unquote stable job. Like I never want to be worried someone's gonna say no to going to the doctor's appointment. I used to work in an environment who did that. Like a chief HR officer, like wasn't okay with me going to a couple doctor's appointments a week. Just like and I, you know, and I was advised by a lawyer, like that's actually such a small ask, it doesn't qualify under the ADA.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Wow. Yeah, that that's that's not worth it.

SPEAKER_05 26:21

Yeah, yeah, that's not worth it because there's like a tangible physical harm to myself and obviously a mental harm too.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

But and then it kind of goes back to just I guess like independence as a person and like somebody else just controlling your life, and that is difficult. That is really, really difficult.

SPEAKER_05 26:44

Yeah, I'd say like one of my more recent bosses, not my most recent, but fairly recent, um, and it had for a while, treated me like an adult, like wasn't worried about me taking too many appointments, or wasn't worried about me working late and then coming in late the next day because the deadline was the priority. Like things like things that I don't think should matter didn't matter. So that to me is kind of is like it's not as simple as that, but I think that's one of the biggest parts to me on this trying to have like stability and freedom at the same time. It's like, let me do it the way that works best for me is great. The part that like does come into play though, it's like, well, what are they doing? Like, what is the company doing? Because that creates some like if you work in healthcare, like um enrollment, you have no life during open enrollment, and you can't control that. So there's you still don't have full control. How much freedom do you feel like you have? You like a 10 out of 10?

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Uh well, I did feel 10 out of 10 until you started talking about doctor's appointments and stuff and pain, and you know, thanks, J. You're welcome. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

Always happy to be the realist.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

So it's really interesting because I feel like my freedom has increased in terms of really feeling like I have acknowledged, I cannot even say slipping, but dropping the ball in terms of health and weight and stuff like that. So I feel free in the sense of like I am over the shame and am like taking control and making real changes. Um, I start physical therapy again next week. So uh, you know, I hate to say double-edged sword in terms of, you know, hopefully it will be helpful, but it's still, you know, time that I've got to take to to deal uh with that. But I I feel, you know, I I would really just say a 10.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

Um yeah, I mean you that seems to be true.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

You're right. Yeah, uh a 10, but I would also say that that is because I have really come to terms with a lot of circumstances that are not ideal, but that's the card, that's the hand I'm dealing with now.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

You know what I realized too, as I look at like the art that I've always liked behind you and your background and things. I if I lived in my own space, I'd go from a five to an eight immediately. So that makes a difference too. If I had kids, I'd be going down to a three. Yeah. You know, like it's those things that like are just like inevitably gonna feel a certain way, even though like I'm super grateful for my living situation, like the sun's out outside, like all that kind of like things that I don't take for granted. Um, yeah, that's how you that comes down to like what how many parts of my life do I have true autonomy? Not all of them.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

And I gotta tell you, not, and I know this sounds horrible when we're talking about children, and I'm talking about people in general, to not uh accept other people's problems is nice.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Yeah. My I got feedback from a family member yesterday about how um it was it was, you know, every this kind of feedback always feels a little double-edged swordy, but like how much like better my personal mood has gotten. And I'm like, well, yeah, I'm not being berated by drama and incompetence all the time. That will make you crabby and impatient. I'm I'm not really like there's been a couple things that have I mean, I just laugh so much at myself when I'm stressed about something at work. You know what I was stressed about? Like legitimately for three days, and it wasn't a deep stress, but it was like there was not it was like there wasn't much else other than like I need to like keep making more money. Um they we lock up different parts of the building and they changed the time to lock up once, but I knew the reason that had to be locked up early. I don't want to go into too many details, but like, oh, it has to be locked up early because that was like the agreement we made with um the sponsors, and they were gonna do it later. And I was like, but I don't want to get yelled at by this one person who works here for locking it up later. And I was stressed because I didn't want to get yelled at. And I was like, you used to get yelled at all the time, Jesse. Like the fact that this completely there would be no consequences other than that person being like irritated with me. And it felt like more because I like have forgotten what that feels like, I think. And that's very freeing to like have forgotten that. But it was so funny to be like, there's no tangible, like when I got put on the pip at the retail place and I was so mad and frustrated, like I didn't agree with it. It's like, I got the flu, what do you want from me? And and then I was like, I asked more questions, and I was like, oh, this is a false consequence. I'm not even on probation. This is a false consequence. I'm used to real consequences, and so it's why if you don't have real consequences, sure, it's good enough for freedom.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

I think you should have shown up to school to school to work with the flu.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

Well, a lot of people did, which is why everyone got the flu. There were several of us put on pips. It was a whole list because I it was an email that listed everyone to the supervisor just for my department, and I know someone else, like all of their department, got called out, like called out because they were all throwing up. So, yes, people did do that.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

People were so mad at me when I came back early sick, and I was like that goes back to these systems not serving the situation.

SPEAKER_05 32:59

I did provide that feedback on my exit survey.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

And now they've changed their policy.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Yeah, I'm sure this giant retailer cares so I mean they are not known for caring about people right now in particular. Um so yeah, I mean that's the thing too, is it's like sometimes we think some because someone's saying something to us, it means we don't have freedom. But like I'm getting better at ignoring people, and that's not a skill I've some people be like, you have that skill, but in a work environment, that's a very different equation for me.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what like thinking about everything that's going on? There are some things that are further outside of your control, but thinking about what is like manageable or doable, what would be like three things that you could do that would increase your feeling at least of freedom?

SPEAKER_05 34:05

So I am I'm gonna make my coworker do this with me next week. I want to create, I mean, yes, I am referencing like a social media reel, like a dopamine menu of like the things that actually like you enjoy doing and getting better about doing, making the conscious choice to fit those things in.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I, you know, I don't do social media, but I like that idea. I'm about to write that down.

SPEAKER_05 34:32

What I actually did, I did a version of it because the problem with that, some some people will very much relate to this, and some will have no idea what I'm talking about. You probably are the latter. Um, even when you have the list of things, whether it's to-dos, or even if it's fun things, making a decision on which one to do is is stressful sometimes. So, what I actually started doing, and we'll see if I have to go back to it, um, was I had two jars, and one of them was the fun stuff. And so there were little pieces of paper with all the like those kinds of fun dopamine things folded up, put inside. So, like, and I was like, I need to like do something fun. I have the freedom and flexibility to do something fun, and I would just like pull it out of the jar and be like, all right, we're gonna go jigsaw puzzle. So I had the jar, had the things, pull out the thing. If there's something that sounded like, oh, I can't go sit outside because it's raining, you know, I just pulled the other one. Like, so but it kind of took the like stress of decision making out of it, and I low-key loved it, and it made me feel like I had a lot of freedom because it was a conscious decision that had all these possibilities, and do you know, go live your best life? It's hard to leave the stress sometimes and like other responsibilities to the side. So I also had a jar that was like things that will like you need to do to be productive on a regular basis. And if I was having that like analysis paralysis kind of thing, or if I was being indecisive because I was like, if it's decision fatigue is very real for me, I could pull something out of that too. And that worked pretty well too, because then it was easier for me just to suck it up and do it instead of looking for the thing that sounded the least painful.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:17

I want to go back to, I mean, freedom working for yourself. People we we often think of those things tied to like hand in hand. Freedom working for yourself. Even though you didn't make the conscious decision, like would you do you have any advice based on what you've lived so far or what you've seen in terms of like how much of a ramp do you save up first? What do you what contingency plans do you have?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Yeah, and see with me, I didn't, and that's what I really regret. I did not plan. So um I just had money saved. I had money recently. I during Rob uh during during COVID, I'd opened up a little Robin Hood account just to play around with. Opened that recently, and that's six months, you know, six months living expenses is gonna carry me through. So I I wish that I had planned and I 100, I just, you know, what is it? God looks out for babies and fools. Is that the saying? I kind of feel like, you know, I got looked out for. But I also know I've got to be more conscientious in terms of of moving forward. So, in terms of advice, honestly, and this sounds really, really horrible. Um, there's a good chance that nobody is coming to save you. Um, you know, I I do have parents that if I had to, I could, you know, fall back on, get a loan, whatever. But at the end of the day, you it's it's really important to be able to plan for the unexpected. And in terms of how much, uh, you know, with me, it's been what is it, about 15 months, 16 months since I've worked for somebody. But again, you know, I'm not taking trips, I'm not doing, you know, high ticket things. I'm not even I'm not even going out to eat. I will go out to eat um, you know, with friends, uh, you know, occasionally, but I'm not making the like carryout, what's that? You know, I'm fascinated by people who DoorDash. I don't have DoorDash money, and I think it's so adorable. My brother, and he said this again. We we go out to eat, he's vegan, I'm vegetarian, we go to a vegan restaurant, um, usually about once a month, maybe once every other month when I was working. He, you know, we would, you know, trade off in terms of who was gonna pay. And uh, when I was not working for somebody the first time we went out, it was so cute. He was like, You just get whatever you want, I'm gonna pay for it. And I wanted no, not I didn't want to. I said to him, I think it's so adorable that you think there's any way that I think I'm gonna pay for any of these meals until I, but okay, and it was so cute because even the last time we went out, he was like, I'm gonna pay for it, just get whatever you want. So, and that's that's one thing that I will also say that I am very fortunate with in terms of I've got people like my brother, I've got a lot of exes uh that you know will go out, they're happy to treat. I mean, so I'm just very fortunate that even though I'm not funding that lifestyle anymore, I can still have fun experiences because folks are looking out for me.

SPEAKER_05 40:00

Yeah, I mean, that is huge. I'm part of why I'm smiling is because I get it and I love your internal thought of like, never did it cross my mind I'm paying for this. Um and I'd say not all my friends, but a good number of my friends, because there are different financial situations themselves, but those who are in like more stable things um uh have been like paying for you know my lunch or whatever we got, which is really nice to them. And those who haven't, like, I don't take it personally, except for one friend. I had the audacity to be like, you know, most of my friends are paying for my meals, and you don't pay for my meals. And they were like, Well, you you always seem like you don't want me to. I was like, I always want anyone to pay for any meal, whether I'm employed or not. Why would I not want you to pay for my meal?

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Um, but you know, I thought about it as like because of their their favorable financial position, I never wanted them to feel like I was like taking advantage of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now it's such a different equation that all like we're figuring out what to do. I'll be like, we can go out to dinner, which you will pay for. We can go to the beach, we can go to whatever. And I just like I can't. It's so funny because I'm not sure there's any other friends I would have said that to. But I'm very tickled with myself for being like, you know, you can afford this.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Well, yeah, well, it's so interesting that you say that because I had a friend who was in my situation, and and she is a friend. I mean, she's and you know, but every time we went out to eat, I always took the every single time. It wasn't even a thing. Yeah, and we went to ice. And I as I just, you know, it's not it's odd in terms of the roles are reversed and you know, the the reciprocation isn't there. But, you know, it is it is what it is.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

I will say, I, you know, I've talked to someone else who is in a similar situation, not like look as I am, like big career pivot, like how are we making what work, etc. And they said at first they felt weird like staying with someone and paying like a reduced rent because they knew the person and they knew you know that like we're doing them a favor. Um, and then she's like, but then I kind of remembered all of a sudden that they lived with me for free for like a year. Like they had forgotten that. And I was like, it's it's a good point. My someone I know um also is like hates asking for help. And I was like, oh, I I used to hate that too. And now I sometimes go back and forth between hating it and feeling good about it. But um I remember when I was in my late 20s and I was able to get like extra tickets for certain shows and things like that. I gave them to my hairdresser who I got similar interests with. And then fast forward four years later, I didn't have money to get my hair done anymore. And they did it for free. You know, so I just really like this like it's like unintentional barter. It never feels like obligation or it's not a type for chat. Like, it's not the like, well, you did this for me, I must do this for you. It's just like, here's a thing I can do to support you while you're trying to figure this out. Because when you go into this realm of freedom, it's not instant. Like you are both opening doors and closing doors at the same time. So the trade-offs are real.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, and I mean, and I will also say that is another thing in terms of what the freedom. Um, you know, I think that people are still intrinsically motivated to provide value where they can. So yeah, I'm not gonna be, you know, paying for dinners for everybody. But you know what? If something's happening and, you know, errands need to be run, I can do that. You know?

SPEAKER_05 43:58

I mean. Yes, and I'm honestly truly excited about the and this is where like I've been weirdly optimistic lately. Girl, like I don't understand my brain. It's that it's like the stuff I'm doing right now is actually might be working, which is weird. So I've had some more optimism than usual and started to get excited about like, you know, it might not be this week, it might not be next month, it might not be this year, but like I'm really excited for when I get to do things for other people that do require money. Like, I really want to take my friends' kids to the Renaissance fair because they'll love it. You know what I mean? Like, I really want them to have that experience because I think they truly would like it. And I it meant so much to me. So I'm like, there is enough hope in me to be like, you don't have stability right now, and you can't do that right now, but take advantage of the fact that you can do the things that I've already mentioned doing, and I'm able to like work out more easily and all that stuff. Um, knowing that, like, yes, that will that will also happen one day.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

So, can I say I have never been to a renaissance fair?

SPEAKER_05 45:09

They're amazing. You know it's wild. I have a good friend at work. We have nothing in common, but our brains work similarly. So we're good friends. There's even even when we went to Chipotle, we all we ordered the opposite things. Every ingredient they held was in mine and no overlap. But the one thing we have in common is our love of the Renaissance fair, which is wild. That's where the Venn diagram interacts. Because usually that comes with a lot of other things, but like nope.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

So here's what I think about when I think about Renaissance fairs. There are three things costumes, dialect, and turkey legs. Are any of those accurate? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 45:59

They're all totally accurate. Yeah. I also think pretty pretty silverwork, pretty jewelries and dragons everywhere, uh-huh, and fun shows with shenanigans and and unbearable heat. They're very hot. Because they take place in the middle of nowhere, which means inland.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Okay, well, I am going to have to find a renaissance fair to attend.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

There I cannot help you with that on the east coast. I was like, there's two you can go to. You are not on the west coast, so I could not help you with that. Yeah, I'm sad I couldn't go this year because I can't walk right now. Yeah, so yeah, plus they cost money. But my point being, like, I still feel like I want this combination of freedom and stability. Where, you know, maybe in between contract, like I have like one busy season, which is very true for travel. Like, we have the busy season, maybe, and then a smaller but still busier season, and then the in between use the freedom. Things like that, or or something similar to what I'm doing now, but uh maybe fewer hours with like something that's just kind of nice, easy to do, does not stress me out, and then I get to really like dive in creatively elsewhere. So I'm a like, I'm trying to not be too yes, like I'm trying to be a little bit of the best of both worlds, which is very, very, very hard and does take a lot of time.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Yeah, but I want it to be possible, I just don't know anyone who has it.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

That was the other thing when I got the feedback about like, you know, you're patient now and all those things. It's like, well, right, you have money or you have happiness. And not having money does not guarantee happiness, but having money in the geography that I'm in means you are like you are basically like your time is owned by someone else.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

I think it was Samuel Jackson who said, whoever said money can't buy happiness never had any money.

SPEAKER_05 48:19

Yeah. Yeah. It it it can. It can buy peace, a lot of just peace of mind, too. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. I'm still I'm still determined to get a little bit of both. I think we are working on my anxiety because that's where freedom can like teeter-totter into anxiety about uncertainty. But I I can see myself giving up some of the freedom for just like an and I loved the mission at my last full-time job. So, like that kind of thing is part of why I gave up a lot of that freedom. But I still had the flexibility to always go to the doctor, so I didn't have to give it up entirely. Right, right, right. You know, that's my like if someone said to me what that previous HR um chief HR officer did about the doctor's appointments, I think I would walk out the door. And like I want to I want to be in a different situation than I am right now, and part of why, even if I got a full-time job that paid well, I would stay in this house is to save up the things so that if that were said to me again, I could walk out the door. The toll is too high. So that's the thing, is like, what are you willing to give up to up? Like, and we again we don't have kids, but like what are you willing to give up in exchange for?

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_05 49:38

The bad parts of both of these things. I will I will happily give up my anxiety if it if it makes freedom even more fun. But yeah, I don't miss having a boss. I really like being like bringing out different parts of like how I hold myself responsible and try to have a healthy relationship with that. Like it's been really nice. Um but you know, not to say anything as uh ridiculous as like just do what you love and it won't feel like work. That's absolutely false. Um, but you learn more about yourself when you are on your own, I think.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_05 50:20

So you want to do freedom as long as possible.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

I want to do freedom as long as possible. Um, but you know, I also want to make sure as I'm doing freedom, I want to, you know, add value to the world. So yeah, you know, I want to really find a place where I have a nice balance in terms of being free, being able to fit uh add value and being financially stable, secure.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

I think that's ideal. And that's why I would, you know, I always was sad I didn't have the energy to volunteer because when I was working so much. But also, like I said, there was a really good mission. So I did feel like I was contributing. But um it's you I think you say like all people want meaning. I think that's something you've talked about before. All people want to be helpful is definitely something that you said.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:22

So just keeping some of that. There's easy. I think that's easy enough. It's easy to find ways that'll be helpful. It's you know, certain realities make it sometimes logistically hard. But that's I actually was thinking about volunteering right now during um slower season for travel.

SPEAKER_04 51:38

Yeah, okay. Yeah, because I can. If you can, you should, you know, why not do?

SPEAKER_05 51:46

But we gotta guess do these doctor's appointments first. That's a that's a late June question.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

That is late June. You you if you can't if you're not taken care of, you won't be able to help anybody else. So I hear you.

SPEAKER_05 51:57

Yeah, and things are going really well, and so I do think this will help me help help help me help me help me uh you know bring you know my best self forward to any kind of relationship or work. So it is worth the investment, but it is hard to feel free because I'm stuck in two structured systems right now. Yeah. That I have no control over. They'll always be like, when are you usually available? And I'm like, when I'm available, you just gotta start throwing times out there. And sometimes they get irritated with me, and I'm just like, I'll bring up my Google Calendar. Like, I'm not I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm not saying I don't like mornings, I'm just saying, like, I don't know. So sometimes I'm working till 9:30 p.m. and sometimes I'm up at 7 a.m. working. Like, I don't know. But I digress. So Cynthia's on her freedom journey, trying to live her best life. Jesse just wants to have like a couple paychecks in line. But that's also kind of the good thing, though, about travel is you don't get the money for like 60 days, sometimes nine, like you don't get it for a couple months, basically, like 60 or 90. And so you can know that money's coming and feel more at ease when you're selling the next things that would then be paying off there. Like that's the silver lining of that payment delay. I've decided. Whereas, like when you get a contract, when I do like a presentation, like I get paid that day and then I'm on my own. And until the day happens, you do give the presentation, they can always cancel.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:27

So it's that's a lot different for me than I've made the money, and the money is definitely coming. Like these giant hotel companies are not going out of business in the next two months. And so actually, I just had the realization of like it kind of gets me like a that nice gray zone in between of like it's not stable because I don't know that a new booking person, like someone new is gonna reach out to book something, but it is stable and that once you've locked in the work, you will get paid for it.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_05 53:56

It's it's it's a lot less likely if you're if you're smart about how you price things, it's things, it's not terribly likely you're gonna do a lot of work and then they're not gonna book through you. It'll happen, but it's not as likely. Right, right, right. So this is all true. I'm still gonna try my best of both worlds and I'll let you know how that doesn't work out over time. But it'll be it'll be good. Uh and I like in the meantime, even with that part-time job, I apparently because I take all the shifts no one wants, apparently, when Jesse goes out of town, the whole thing breaks and it stresses my boss out a lot. And I'm just like, well, that's not my fault. And so I was proud of myself because at first I was like, Oh, I feel bad that it caused the stress. I was like, oh no, I don't do the staffing.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 54:41

They I've I flagged this months ago that this is a point of failure. And okay, that's not my responsibility. So it's also the having that stable job also does help, you know, I'm bringing more like freedom mindset to it as well.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Yeah, it's nice to kind of feel needed.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

And it is nice to feel helpful, it is nice to feel needed as long as you can stay like oh like not humble about it enough to know, like, oh, but they are hiring someone who can fill in those shifts because they should not have a single point of failure. And that's like a business term for people. Like, basically, like, if this one person leaves, it breaks a lot of things. You should never have that. There should always be manuals training, a backup person.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:24

So, like, they're fine, and so I told them straight up when they were hiring, I was like, you need these are the shifts that when I'm gone or this other person's gone, for these other shifts, like everything breaks. So it's it's very interesting for me to be at the point of just like I'm not getting enough stability to give up all of my freedom.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Right.

SPEAKER_05 55:48

Like, I'm gonna be gone for two days. I'm sorry, they're not ideal dates for you, but also I'm not like not that sorry. I'm the right amount of sorry. Right. This is all true. So I I to me, I'm gonna keep prioritizing doing my own travel. One, it's but makes me do my job better, and two, like it gives me more life than anything else. So we are we are working on being able to walk more again, specifically with the goal of travel. And all my friends can pay for my meals in the meantime. PSA. Sorry, friends, that friend I mentioned does listen to this podcast. But they it's fine, they know. Well, now I'll really know if they listen or they just say they do. All right, any final last words?

SPEAKER_03 56:36

No, be free, be happy. You got this, you can do it. You're stronger than you think you are.

SPEAKER_05 56:43

I would say don't count on any company, count on yourself a little more, save up more money. As soon as you can save up money, keep your frugal lifestyle to and save up as soon as you are in a position to do so. And um unless you've been like putting off doctor's appointments, and then don't worry about saving yet, go to the doctor's appointment. Go to the doctor. Um, but I will also say one piece of advice I would add that my husband actually said to me, which is very was very, very important, is like if you whether you are laid off and like frantically seeing what to cut, or whether you are thinking about leaving to go pursue something, when you are budgeting, don't look at how much you think you spend a month and don't think about how much like you need in like don't just come up with it. Look at all, look at your checking, look at your savings, look at your credit card or credit cards and see how you've actually been spending over several months. Because I my I told my husband, like, oh, I can live off this much a month, and he's like, No, you can't. It's double that amount. You cannot live off that much amount.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

And I was like, Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_05 57:58

And it's not just about looking at the last three months. I look at like if I was doing it right now, I'd be looking at May of 2025 and May of 2024 because there's seasonal expenses too.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

Yeah, that's true. That's a really good point. Ooh, don't start talking about November and December.

SPEAKER_05 58:14

Yeah. For real. And and if you have, if you're lucky enough to have air conditioning, those utilities cost more. And if you if you were out of town for a whole month, you better remember that. So people get really anxious looking at numbers. Call your friend who's like me, and we will sit down and look at all the budgeting numbers together because that's where my hyper-vigilant whatabout thrives. Yep. And when I was budgeting, I budgeted in. All right, well, my car hasn't broken down in six months. It will inevitably break in the next two years. We are budgeting for my car to break down. Like all those things that you can't control may or may not happen, but like budgeting is the one thing you can control. You can't control how much money you have necessarily to budget with. But, you know, you can make some choices. Um, but still take your medication and vitamins.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

Very good advice, very important advice.

SPEAKER_05 59:13

All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Um, hopefully you thought about what you gained from stability, what you gained from freedom. And even if you have stability, like, you know, do right by future you. I'm very glad past Jesse did right by future Jesse as soon as she could. And it was 20 years until she could, so this isn't to make anyone feel bad who can't save up yet. Oh, if you want to contact us, if you have any questions, comments, or topics, uh, you can email us through the travel website. Uh hello at meridian by jessie.com, and that's Jesse with an IE. Okay, now we're done.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

All right. Bye.